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By that I mean Leah has to worry about whether the bus will be doing mortal damage to her or not!

Does Ash read these? I am interested to know whether Tyler would have killed Dreizach or not. Perhaps you are waiting to role play that conversation for the session?

• lower lip wobble*

Hmmm... okay.

This should mean that by the time I've got to you I should be well free of the built up rage of the day so far, venting it all on helpless, unknowing and probably innocent passengers. Mwa ha ha a hah ahaa!

I am at a computer, so I shall post up nexts weeks installment!

Shh! Don't tell the boss!

Ok I am all caught up on the 5 pages I have missed!!

Ok Tyler...

OOC - Im left increasingly frustrated by the "Tyler" scenario because it very much feels as though Richard, Mike, Bruce, Paul and Len (Dad) dont understand what happened and therefore Barry, Orc, Dreizack, Ratsel, Negri, Gannon, Coolio, Ti Ying and THE WORLD dont get it! So Im going to try one more time to explain my thought process and then hopefully you can see why she did what she did and why she feels what she does. Personally I think its a Man Woman thing and this could well be a lost cause.

Information about her background and personality which the characters should have picked up:
Tyler is fiercely loyal, she was 100% committed as a guard in Bandaluthia until she saw corruption within the ranks. This deeply upset and confused her because those people swore to protect the city. She joined the guild when she saw that they actually protected many of the people she thought the guard should help and were more honest in their deceptions. Since she has been 100% committed to the guild. Her loyalties to The Animals were questioned when it took her a long time to be accepted by the group, especially in comparison to Ti Ying and Driezack. She defended herself then by saying things were not black and white, she was neither guild nor guard, she was Tyler and she would die protecting and defending her friends, be these guild, guard or animal. She said then that she never forsaw a time when the animals would be a conflict to her, as she saw them as good, honest people who would stand by one another. Once she found out the guild and guard were one in the same this again really troubled her but she chose to share that information with the animals as a sign of loyalty to them.

This means:
She feels as though Dreizack has never had to prove his loyalty and yet she has.
She considers loyalty to your friends the biggest part of her decision making.
She has been trained to never leave a man behind, you don't know if they will be there for you to come back and get.
She has faced many conflicts over what is "right" and she always uses loyalty to those who need her and to Palanthia as her guidance.

So...
Just as Shaniqua is a little ditsy, and coolio likes food, and ratsel likes himself and Jacob was foolish Tyler is passionate about "her people" and is (perhaps too) loyal to them.

The Offer:
Because of who she is "The Mission" is not the primary concern, "The Animals" are.
I (OOC) understand that for everyone else the decisions that they made were either self serving in Barry and Negri's case or Mission serving in Driezack and Coolio's case. And I don't see a problem with that.
However to Tyler if it was self serving then those people are cowards who would not stand with their party and accept the fate together. So she considers Barry (now that she knows he was arrested) and Negri to be cowards. They are easy to deal with because they did betray her, but because they are weak minded and weak willed. She sees that as a bad thing, but not unforgivable. They didnt MEAN to betray her, they couldnt help being the cowards they are.

Those who are Mission serving is confusing to her because that implies a decision, rational and thought out where "The Animals" and specifically her were thought about and then decided it was not as important as serving Sinn. This is difficult for her to work out. Dreizack is not a coward, but he actively decided that serving Sinn was more important than any of his comrades.

The Order
The order in which you get asked is irrelevant to Tyler. She didn't know she was the last to be asked until she was told the others had made the choices they had. You can always ask "what of my friends". Those who left either asked and made a conscious choice to leave people there, which she chose to not believe (although since believes that Shaniqua would have done this)or they didn't even think to ask. For the cowards this is to be expected. For the others this was yet more evidence of their lack commitment to the party. At the time of her decision she did not know who she was staying with it could have just as easily been Negri, or Barry, or Lupa or Driezack. she would not have left any of them.

Why it is Man Woman Thing:
Men (typically) cannot find the emotion in a scenario and think only logically so it would seem totally unfathomable that the reasons behind her actions are not logical but as the root of many male female arguments, just because you don't get it it doesn't mean it isn't important.

Why I'm Getting Frustrated:
It seems as though every NPC and Player is constantly having a go at Tyler's choice. This Isn't fair, I've RPd her as I saw fit and it feels a lot like she is getting punished because players dont understand her actions. In game terms in about a month she has found out her whole world view was wrong and everyone is really one in the same, she has been nearly killed several times, once by Sinn! She has had all of her money taken off her to protect herself with armour she not only didn't get but got cursed to boot. She has been betrayed by those she has had to prove her loyalty to, she has been raped, abused, imprisoned. I think she deserves to hit out!!!

What Now:
Tyler very much believes she would have killed Dreizach, however if it had come that close she would probably not have the heart to actually issue the killing blow. She recognises that he didn't fight to defend himself which is why she will not attack him again. Every time the Animals take delight in her suffering she grows more sure she should not travel with them any more, she would want to surround herself with people she could trust not to leave her behind. Just as she has the tough exterior of "will not leave a man behind" she is also a 20 year old girl who has been through hell and back and is very scared of being left again. If Coolio takes her aside and tells her he is pissed off with her she will leave the animals. She will not want them to be disadvantaged with Sinn and therefore she will leave to track down the Ravensleigh's who have the Brolin key. On her own. If Sinn wont allow her to go she will fight until he kills her.

Hope that makes sense

Ignore the boards for a while and then smack them hard huh?

Ok. I understand it. I do. Tyler is trying to put her thoughts into black and white/ right and wrong. To her, the choice was Animals (Tylers family, friends, colleagues and partners) or quest ( of the keys, Sinn, the Ravensly's or such) Dreizach chose quest. Simples.
(is it this simples or have I missed the point again?)

I Know it isn't really simples, it goes into the superbly complex characters that you guys have created to be in the world of Kalas. It is really a reaction to each other that the characters depth grows. It makes for a brilliant game to which I can barely be held responsible.

The unfortunate fact is that ALL characters are deep. (That fact itself is not bad) What is bad is that each character and NPC is unlikely to change tact. For the Animals to go forward as a whole, I think tolerance may be needed. By whom I would be reticent to say, except that you are unlikely to get it from Sinn!

I have been a player in a thieves guild setting before. What started out as a very close knit group (not too dis-similar to the Animals) turned into carnage and saw 50% of the party killed and the other half fled and took out contracts upon each other!

It is the nature of the beast of a Thieves guild full of either self serving characters, or mean ruthless con artists. Mix this with high powered, stressful situations ( our sessions) and a conspiracy (which extends to all reaches of the world from a poker game) and I am quite suprised that the Animals have lasted as long as they have.

So, to keep the Animals in one piece, people are going to have to admit mistakes have been made. I am not pin pointing you here Ash, I hold my hands up here too. I failed to see your point.

Coolio has held his tongue this long, and will hold it longer. He wants to have it out, but is so damned awed by what he believes happened to Tyler that he will probably remain silent about it forever. (I know he's got the wrong end of the stick, but you must see that as far as he is concerned, Dallah Thaun used Tyler to avenger the abuse of them both. Coolio is so awed, because Dallah Thaun is a Halfling Godess, and clearly used a human to avenge the wrongs done to him personally. When your God personally avenges your abuse, even the instrument of that God is kind of special too.)

Previously he was just trying to keep Tyler safe until she "saw sense". Allowing the others to argue the case. He knew she was deeply hurt, and knew she would need time to adjust. He hoped she would eventually see that only he needed to remain. The story of her night's battle and the evidence he saw has confused him a little. Perhaps she was the instrument of Dallah Thaun all along. The Gods know more than we mortals after all. He knows he felt special when he was party to freeing the kidnapped children. Now he thinks he sees in Tyler what their parents and the community saw in him.

Now, there is a greater mission than Sinn's. However, The Animals gave Sinn their word. He has tested them to see how easily they go back on their word.
The temptation was great. But it was a test.

Len

Hi All,

I see this as about the link between reason and passions. Ash, you seem to be saying that, for women, reason is, and only ever can be, slave to the passions. I don't agree - I think people's passions can evolve in the light of rational deliberation. This doesn't involve repression of emotions, just critical thinking about them.

Concerning the man-woman thing, not all women fit the pattern of the dichotomy you present.

Ratsel, who doesn't like Tyler and never has, wants to get her to interrogate her emotions to ensure she doesn't attempt to wound, or kill, another party member again. Dreizack, in contrast, doesn't understand what happened. He would have followed Tyler and done what he was told because he looks to her as a leader. But, he wasn't given the order.

Now, concerning the "hard time". Tyler brought this on herself the moment she tried to wound, or kill, Dreizack. I think it was inexcusible and (in this regard only) she's lucky to be alive.

In peace,
Bruce

I honestly dont mind if everyone does have a go at her, rightly so she attacked a party member and has refused to play ball with people recently. What i minded was that it appeared to stem from a player misunderstanding rather than from a character disagreement.

Not all women no, and not all men are incapable of seeing the emotion, however I have played her as that type of woman. She has a tough hard edge and noone in the party has ever seen, or tried to see that there is more to her than that, and pent up emotion came out in hitting out at Driezack. I totally 100% expected that someone would kill her that night for her actions in attacking him. And she totally deserves it. She has seen that it was the wrong way to act and so wont attack again. She knows she needed to step away from the party BEFORE that happened and think, but she didnt because she had nowhere else to go, she had her sergeant status revoked. I tried to play her as a wounded cornered animal (excuse the pun) hitting out was all she had left.

If Ratsel wants her out, play that out...
If coolio want to have it out with her that is cool...
If noone now trusts her that is fine too...

I just wanted to make sure PLAYERS understood what she did and why so that CHARACTERS could react on full info...

Ratsel is a terrible leader! He is likely the most focussed, even the most ambitious, certainly the most outspoken, but lacks credible wisdom. (his familiar is wiser!) Out of all the Bandaluthian PC's Tyler is probably best suited for leadership.

That's just my tuppence!

I have an alteration to my previous comment. Ratsel is the beat suited to lead the Animals. All the rest will blindly follow him like the sheep the are, whereas he would question the instruction of others! The others question and doubt any other who is put in a leadership role.

You all know it's true!

So, who noticed the change?

Rabbit dammit! Not sheep.

Len

Baaaa!

Fellow-Animals. I have given some thought to recent events. Ambiguity has almost torn us apart, and threatened the lives of two of our most worthy fellows. We need clarity. I have, therefore, drafted a set of rules for our group. The particular rules are immaterial. We vote on each, and any proposed additions. None of the rules I am proposing are retrospective, though that is for us, as a group, to decide.

I suggest we discuss them on the day of Kord.

Ratsel

When is the day of Kord? It's coincidentally on Thursday evening?

That would be convenient, wouldn't it. Pandora probably knows. Coolio & Ti Ying don't.

Len

Kord is just a back-door version of Thor.

Thorsday.

Bruce

lol... Rules...oh dear!

are rules like plans, cuz if so I dont think we will be very good at that...

I think that each group should take a scole of teleportation and someone who has means to cast it

Michael. You plonker.

Still, now we know that reporting a post needs some looking at.
Reporting a post, even accidentally only identifies to the moderator which thread has a problem, not which post, and on this thread, that was difficult.

Len