Forum: Public Forum

on Tue 20 of Mar., 2012 17:12 GMT, by harper posts: 284

Moving the talk of this game, into it's own thread.

As it stands there is me and three players. Would be good to have one more. [Although I'm kinda thinking that if Ginga is able to host he'd probably join us]

4 players is good with me numbers wise.

Basics of the adventure path:
Starting level: 7
Races: any of the races in the core book.
Classes: Any from Core/APG/Complete magic/Complete Warrior. [Although no Summoner or Gunslinger]
Starting cash: 23,500gp

This adventure is a sandbox like adventure. You have the area of The Desolation and the City of Tsar open to you to explore/plunder. You can choose were you go and in which order you do it in. [Although a gentle GM pointer do the area of The Desolation first then go to the City of Tsar]

Just a side note (to make it a little easier for me) your characters are members of the Pathfinder Society. [It is up to you if you want your characters to have worked together before or if you know each other prior to setting out]

Background:
Your characters have been given an job by the Pathfinder Society to investigate the region known as The Desolation, and the deserted city of Tsar.[They have pointed you to the hamlet called "The Camp" as a home base while in the area]
The society is particularly interested in this area for two reasons.

Firstly the old trade route that existed through The Desolation if made safe would mean that the Society would have a significant advantage in trade between the Inner Sea Region and Tian Xia.*

Secondly, the history's of this area report long ago that the (now deserted) city of Tsar was a city held by Orcus. There was a battle between the forces of light and the forces of Orcus, which changed the nature of The Desolation.

Given the history's there must surely be many interesting relics that should be claimed for the Society so that they can be stored safely and be kept out of the wrong hands. The society would also be interested in further information about the battles that happened here as the recorded histories have many gaps in them.

They have mentioned that if you are able to make The Desolation and the City of Tsar safe, they would need a capable group to set up a Pathfinder Society Lodge in the area, and perhaps run the area for the good of the Society.

A note, I am placing The Desolation in the area of the Inner Sea called The World Wound. The city that you would have been given this assignment in would be Bard's Gate.

Almort (Ding): Lich Sorcerer
Rondar (Ron): Magus. Now an NPC as he fell at the feet of Orcus in a dream.
Mehilainen Kirkas (Mel): Cleric. Sometimes known as "the one armed Bint"

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 11:56 BST, by Ding posts: 204 United Kingdom

Hi all,

Just want to point out we may have been a bit liberal with the average dice rolls for hit points. I think I confused the average of a D6 for 4 and a D10 for 6, when of course they should be 3.5 and 5.5 respectively. That means we should drop down 3 hp each, if we're being honest that is.

On another note, I really enjoyed the first session, although short. I definately liked sickening the paladin in order to 'save' him. To be fair he should have passed the fort save.

Looking forward to the next session, where Almort can try out some more of his spells.

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 13:50 BST, by melociraptor posts: 86

Hey guys, how did it go last night? Hope my character isn't dead already...

@Ding, I rolled all my HP so I'm assuming that doesn't apply to me.

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 14:12 BST, by Ding posts: 204 United Kingdom

@mel, you're quite right, it doesn't affect you.

A brief summary of the action (as I remember it).

We headed into a small camp, found there was a hill giant with a crazy look in its eye. Our paladin though for mearly a split second about talking him down before changing his mind and charging in. The giant pretty much flattened him with a hit and a crit. The fighter moved in for another attack and the cleric backed them up. The socerer decided to play and brough up a spectral hand to do his wishes. The paladin went for another swing, but missed terribly, and got stomped on into the ground. The fighter took some more swings doing some damage. Cleric healed the flatterned mess of the paladin. Almort, took matters into his own hand and took a calculated risk and decided to use ghoul touch to paralyse the giant, it succeeded but produced a stench that sickened the paladin (cleric and fighter I will learn names soon, were unaffected. The paralysed hill giant was no match for the fighter who managed a very delightful coup de grace. We all walk away happy, appart from maybe the paladin who is feeling sick and will do so until someone cures him, hehehe.

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 14:35 BST, by Tim the Enchanter posts: 123

Fellow Giant Slayers, biggrin

"we may need to consider tactics"

I guess we could have split up and attacked it from both sides, but having said that I don't think we get the 'flanking bonus' if one of us is on the ground unconscious...

Might be a good idea to stick close to the 'Camp' while we sort out the melee side of things.

"That means we should drop down 3 hp each, if we're being honest that is"

Hmm...
1. Wouldn't -3 hp have killed the Paladin last night?
2. The DM gave 6 as an average for a d10 on the first page of this thread. Obviously if the DM insists we must have +3 hp then okay I shall just have to go along with it... wink

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 15:27 BST, by harper posts: 284

On the hit point question.. Ding you are correct on the values for the average values. However in this case this is a situation were we round up to the neareat whole number! (that and i cannot have players goong round at every other level with a 1/2 hit point) . See i can be a nice dm sometimes! biggrin

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 15:33 BST, by Tonbo posts: 45

Yeay!
I was slightly conserned that the Paladin's crazed half-twin may have to step in on short notice to take the place of a squished mess.

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 15:47 BST, by melociraptor posts: 86

Sounds awesome, I'm glad my cleric (Mehilainen, Ding :P Although she may prefer to go by Kirkas, I haven't quite decided yet...) was of some use. Are we aiming for the next session to be Thursday 12th? It is in my diary and I will totally be there. Btw, I actually don't know *where* exactly... Is it at Vague?

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 16:00 BST, by harper posts: 284

Yes to both questions Mel.
I put the next three sessions in the calendar on here.

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 16:05 BST, by melociraptor posts: 86

Thanks, I just remembered to look there... can't wait :-D

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 17:11 BST, by Tim the Enchanter posts: 123

Could someone do me a favour and upload a .rtf or .txt version of that Slumbering Tsar History .doc? Or alternatively email it to me or something.
Not a huge fan of .doc files off the internet.

Cheers

on Fri 30 of Mar., 2012 17:45 BST, by harper posts: 284

Tim,i'll email the info over to you when i get home tonight.

on Sat 31 of Mar., 2012 15:26 BST, by Tim the Enchanter posts: 123

Another ( rolleyes biggrin ) quick question for the DM...
(...or for any of you Pathfinder experts out there.)

When Initiative is rolled at the start of combat, are we (i.e. the players) aware of where in the initiative ranks the enemy will be acting? Or do we need to wait until the first round plays out to see when they act?

Actually you may well have mentioned this during the first session but I, not realising its significance, didn't pick up on it. Can't remember.

Cheers

on Sat 31 of Mar., 2012 16:18 BST, by harper posts: 284

As far as I am aware the rules are silent of if the players are aware result of the enemy's initiative (and thus were they are in the order of battle). Given that the party will know fairly quickly when they (the party) and the enemy, there isn't much to be gained in not telling the group.

I personally tend to say if members of the party or the enemy are going first in combat. (Although I tend not to say who in the party is going before or after the enemy).

on Sun 01 of Apr., 2012 00:43 BST, by Tim the Enchanter posts: 123

Fellow Adventurers,

So: I have been reading the Combat Rules (always useful for someone playing a fighter) and pondering our slightly-less-than-impressive Desolation Debut... and wondering what we could do better for next time.

C  P        GG
S  F        GG

Despite how it played out I still think that basically what we did was a reasonable strategy. (a) The Giant had a ranged attack so getting it into melee asap meant less risk of Almort being squished by a large boulder and (b) it had a reach of 2 squares so charging was the best way to get close without giving away a free attack. The problem came when the Paladin -> Giant -> Fighter Initiative Rankings left the Paladin going mano-a-mano with a Giant on Full Attack.

An alternative idea might have been for the Paladin to have delayed his turn until later. In practice this probably would have led to the Giant attacking us and catching the Fighter ‘flat-footed’ with a -3 AC penalty. The Giant might also have used Cleave as the Paladin and Fighter were adjacent. Obviously this is not an ideal situation either but arguably better than the Paladin being clubbed in the face twice.

A third option would be the Paladin just moving a few squares forward. This gives the Giant 3 choices: (1) a single attack on the Paladin before being charged by the Fighter, (2) attack the ‘flat-footed’ Fighter but possibly allow the Paladin a free ‘Attack of Opportunity’ and risk being flanked in the next round, or (3) throw something and then get charged by both Paladin and Fighter immediately afterward.

Well that’s my take on it so far. Anyone else have any thoughts?

(I am writing this purely from a melee perspective so no doubt there would be some Divine and Spooky-Hand stuff in the mix as well.)

on Mon 02 of Apr., 2012 11:06 BST, by Ding posts: 204 United Kingdom

Note: if the giant had already acted, charging it should give it an attack of opportunity (I think), as the giant has a reach of 10ft any character charging in would have to pass through a threatened square to get to him. Unless a NPC or PC has got any special feats they should only get one attack of opportunity per round.

I'm not sure if we could have done anything better. The paladin moving forward took the giants attention away from the spell casters giving them room to maneuver. If we'd sat still we would have been trapped in the narrow passageway. The only downside was the paladin dropping 2AC for charging. However, as the dice went this didn't make any difference.

The paladin moving half way up to the giant and perhaps going total defence (+4ac instead of a standard action) and drawing the attention of the giant could have been a different way to approach it, not sure it would have helped us in any way.

Also the paladin could have used lay-on-hands to boost his hp after the first hit and smite evil to increase attack (by CHA bonus) and damage (by level).

on Mon 02 of Apr., 2012 13:30 BST, by Tim the Enchanter posts: 123

Hi Ding. Thanks for the reply.

Yes you are correct - charging a 'non-flat-footed' Giant will give it a free attack. I hadn't realised that, though to be honest that makes me favour the 'Paladin Delays' idea even more. It's even possible that being trapped in the narrow area would have benefitted us defensively by preventing the Giant from running around and punching the spell casters.

Who knows? Let's see how things play out next time.

on Mon 02 of Apr., 2012 18:47 BST, by harper posts: 284

As Ding mentioned other than the Paladin remembering to lay on hands on himself (and call smite on it.. which would have worked in this case), and maybe your character and the Paladin getting (via 5 foot steps) so you were in flanking positions I don't think that there was much more you could have done tactically.

One thing that the Hill Giant had that I didn't use was cleave. Given that on the day both melee fighters were next to each other, so technically the hill giant could have had two hits on one of you then cleave into the other.

on Mon 02 of Apr., 2012 21:00 BST, by Tim the Enchanter posts: 123

Well in this case I think 'flanking' is a bit of a distraction - the Paladin was down before we had time to get into position. Also I am a bit concerned about allowing the Giant to charge the spell casters - which is what splitting the front line would do.

Re: Cleave. The impression I get from the rules is that Cleave can only be a standard attack, so the Giant has to choose between Full Attack OR Cleave, but cannot use both.

Anyways, to clarify what I'm going on about:
The first round of melee.

1. Paladin charges Giant. 1 attack.
2. Giant Full Attacks Paladin. 2 attacks.
3. Fighter charges Giant. 1 attack.

Strictly speaking the Giant could also have got an Attack of Opportunity on the Fighter there, giving the Giant 3 attacks and the party 2.

An alternative:

1. Paladin delays action til later.
2. Giant moves in and Cleaves front line. Possible 2 attacks.
3. Paladin Full Attacks. 2 attacks.
4. Fighter Full Attacks. 2 attacks.

That gives the Giant maybe 2 attacks spread across the front line (of strapping HP-laden chaps) and the party 4 attacks.

An improvement... Or is there something else in the rules I've missed?

on Mon 02 of Apr., 2012 21:14 BST, by harper posts: 284

With the hill giants cleave he could have had (from my reading of it) had an attack at the paladin, then cleave onto the fighter (without the -4 that he had).

It may be a case that we are over thinking the combat that happened.
Aside from the comments above, given the situation that you found yourselves in, there wasn't a massive amount you could have done "better", and alot you could have done "worse".

on Mon 02 of Apr., 2012 22:22 BST, by Tim the Enchanter posts: 123

"It may be a case that we are over thinking the combat that happened"

biggrin

Well given that we are like 3 sentences into an 800 page campaign and already there's a near-fatality, I'm just curious about the tactical possibilities going on here, that's all.

Could be time to put a lid on it before we scare people away.

"Well actually yes, we did have a cleric in the party once..." surprised