Forum: Public Forum

Dear Players,

Poison.

Having recently been on both sides of the fence, as a GM nearly killing players and as a player nearly losing his PC due to CON loss; I have been thinking a bit more about the Pathfinder RPG rule changes to the poison mechanics in D&D.

Clearly the poison mechanics were usually inconsequential in D&D Third Edition (3.0/3.5), encounters had to run for ten rounds to see the secondary effect kick in, in case of a failure on the secondary save. Thus low-level PC hardly ever died during combat due to poisoning because combats at that level last at most five to six rounds; and when they did die, they died after the encounter, therefore the poison mechanics did not really impact on the suspense of the encounter. At higher levels, with only a second save after ten rounds, the effects of even potent poisons were still not that exciting during combat.Pathfinder RPG changed that with the continuous damage mechanics. To balance the effect, they have switched most D6 damages to D4 or D3, but as you have realised, rules for resistance imply two consecutive saves for an average poison, or even three on the trot for very tough substances; only the weakest poisons require only one save. CON poisons, the most interesting ones become far deadlier (D2, D3 or D4 instead of a couple of D6 notwithstanding), and way out of the CR of the creature inflicting them, if luck is only midly against the player.

I have realised that I have been misinterpreting the "require n saves over p rounds" formula.
What I do at the moment is:

• Ask for a save on the hit.
• Ask for saves for p rounds unless consecutive saves happen.

Thus if p is given as 6 rounds, I ask for seven saves. This is unfair.

What I should be doing:

• A monster, on its initiative, hits a PC. Or on PC's initiative in case of an AoO.
• Deal damage, say nothing.
• Next monster turn (PC turn in case of AoO), before acting (attacking, moving, etc): Call for a save from the PC who was hit.
• Apply poison effect.
• Add one to the poison counter.
• Then the monster (or PC in case of AoO) acts.

Playing like this would ensure only a number of saves equal to the number of rounds (assuming all fails or not enough consecutive saves). This would be fairer. It would also be more realistic in the sense that the poison would require at least one round to act on the PC's immune system.

Other poison mechanic rules should work as published of course: The +2 cumulative to save DC in case of multiple hits, the lenghtening of the p effective rounds, etc.
What I am doing sort right is to allow a +4 to saves from other PCs who succeed at the Heal check. There is also no penalty for failing by five or more. Failing is already negative enough for the PC who requires the aid of his friends.
In fact the rules as written never mention "failing by five or more" in the description of the Heal skill. I shall henceforth play by those rules. There is also no restriction on PCs attempting a Heal check on themselves, thus rolling twice: once for the potential +4 and once for the actual save (with or without the +4 circumstance bonus).

I have said "sort of" because the Heal check should happen when the PC is rolling the saving throw. This implies that only one Heal check should be rolled per saving throw attempt, thus only one person can help (usually the PC with the highest skill modifier).

The Heal skill is available here.

Wednesday game.

I have updated the game page.
See you on Wednesday.

Laurent,